Saturday, June 3, 2017

Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia Part 3 - The Gameplay and the Finale

Gameplay:                                                           D -  / F
                     If I had to pick an element of the game that I thought was the weakest it would most certainly be the gameplay. Shadows of Valentia made the foolish mistake of bringing back many of the more frustrating elements of the original game. Before I get into the negatives I thought it would be nice to first go over some of the positives.

Mila’s Turnwheel: This has to be my favorite addition to the game. It’s a reasonable compromise between the awfulness of Phoenix Mode and having to restart due to getting RNG screwed (and trust me I will definitely talk more about the RNG screwing later on). It’s also limited so you can’t abuse it all game long which means that you still have to play intelligently. It saved me a lot of frustration and I am totally all for bringing this back in future installments.

Combat Arts: When I first heard about this mechanic I thought it was going to be totally unnecessary and while I can see some people not being too fond of it, I personally enjoyed this new addition. I ended up using them a lot more than I thought I was originally going for. The idea of getting a different type of attack that was more accurate, dealt more damage and in some cases had an additional effect was a neat feature to the overall game. While it may need some polishing if it comes back I was an overall fan of this feature, much to my surprise.

                              Another positive came from all the improvements in the mechanics that this game had over the original which were:


  • Superior growths combined with better experience gains: In the original Gaiden I always hated the abysmal growth rates. Any growth rate that was 30 % or above was considered exceptional while 20 % was generally the norm. Also, none of the characters had any resistance growths either. Shadows of Valentia thankfully improved this making 40 & 50 % growths the norm for most stat growths. Leveling up doesn’t feel like pulling teeth out like it did with its predecessor which makes the game more fun and gives it a natural progression.

  • The ability to see movement ranges, attack ranges and combat windows: Another element of Gaiden (and Fire Emblem 1) that I strongly disliked was the inability to see movement ranges, attack ranges and combat windows. While this may seem trivial to the average player those three things end up making a huge difference in a player's ability to strategize. Not having access to these things was annoying at best and fatal at worst. Thankfully Shadows of Valentia improved all of this.

Now that we’ve got all that out of the way let’s get to the negatives.

  • Awful Map Design: Gaiden has arguably the worst map design in the history of the series. If it’s not the worst it should definitely be in the Top 3. The maps are way larger than they need to be, they’re often full of empty space and there’s little to no thought about how terrain is implemented or how the enemies are placed. This hurts the level of thought and strategy required to put into the game. What’s even worse is that virtually all the map objectives are the same: Rout enemy. This makes the maps repetitive and somewhat tedious. Imagine if you killed the enemy boss and yet there’s that one random mook off in the corner that you have to chase down. Not my idea of fun. It was foolish for Shadows of Valentia to not improve this. It’s sad that Conquest is the only 3DS Fire Emblem whose map design wasn’t 100 % atrocious.



  • Atrocious RNG: Over 90 % of my frustration with this game came through my abysmal luck. This was another element that seemed to be carried over from the original. I counted 15 instances of an enemy landing a critical hit on me when their chances of doing so were in the single digits. Roughly half of those were 1 % too. That pissed me off to an absurd degree. What’s even worse was what this game did with accuracies. I stopped keeping track of how many times a 70 - 90 % accuracy missed. It was that bad. It was also infuriating when a sub 50 % hit from an enemy unit hit me. Most battles felt like coin flips after a while almost to the point where it simply didn’t matter how high or low the accuracies were. I understand that these things can happen and I can tolerate relatively small dosages of RNG bullcrap, but when this becomes the norm I think there’s a problem.

  • Witches that can teleport to any part of the map: Another frustrating element of the original game. This mechanic undermines the value of unit positioning. Why bother meticulously placing units when they can still be attacked at any point in time? There’s practically nothing the player can do except just deal with it and hope the AI is stupid, which imo the AI in this game is rather sub par. I don’t see the strategic merit in it.

  • Enemies being able to start skirmishes: I always hated this part of the original game too. Enemies that can attack without giving the player time to prepare seems counterproductive and not very strategic, especially when you’re forced to bring out your characters that you left on the bench.



  • Stupidly high terrain bonuses: Here’s small a list of terrain bonuses from this game:

  • Supplies / Fort / Oranges: 40 %
  • Graves: 60 %
  • Forest, Woods: 40 %
  • Thicket, Pillar, Coral: 30 %
  • Bulwark / Mountain: 30 %


                           Most of the bonus giving terrain in this game averages an extra boost of 30 % avoid or higher. That’s ridiculous! Especially the 60 % avoid on graves. 30 % is at the super high point for what I’d consider acceptable but 40 - 60 % is high enough to practically determine the outcome of a battle. It reminds me of the elevation bonus in Radiant Dawn. Thankfully magic users can ignore these things but that doesn’t change the fact that these boosts are too high and too battle defining for their own good.  

  • The Dungeon Crawling: Yeah, I’m not the biggest fan of exploration in most of the games I play. Exceptions exist for stuff like Xenoblade Chronicles but the general rule is that I much rather prefer to get from Point A to Point B in as little time as possible. I’m not the best at directions or finding things so I when do exploring like that it usually takes me longer than I’d like to find stuff. This means that long portions of the game are spent for me trying to find where Mila’s Shrine is or where the important parts of Duma’s Temple / Tower are. What’s worse are the continuously respawning monsters you have to fight whenever you enter one of these dungeons. The maps for monster fights in the dungeon are repetitive, tedious and a slog to get through. Toward the end of the game I actively went out of my way to avoid them at all costs because I didn’t want to sit through another tedious fight.


Just as I predicted the “fatigue” system in this game was way too nerfed and watered down. It only applied to dungeons and it never impacted how I played the game. Characters didn’t start getting fatigued until the end of the game and by that point you’ve already acquired so much food and other stuff that you can easily cure it. Heck, you can cure fatigue at every Mila’s Shrine you come across which pretty much neuters any potential consequences that come about from this game. Thracia 776 is the only game that’s done fatigue or capturing correctly.

  • More Difficult to 1 Round KO: Is it just me or is it harder to 1 Round KO enemies in this game than in other games? This was something that the original game was notorious for. Enemies seem to have higher HP and Defense values which means that you may need 2 or more characters to kill the same enemy (depending on which enemy and which unit you’re talking about) which makes the fighting at times more tedious than it has to be. Combine that with my awful RNG rolls and now you’re taking longer to kill than I should be.

                           Overall: I wish that Shadows of Valentia did more to improve upon the mechanics of the original. There are just too many frustrating moments to consider this aspect of the game to be good. It may seem harsh to some people, but I do consider Shadows of Valentia to have mechanics that range from subpar to downright awful. My dislike of the gameplay here was enough to turn my enjoyment of it down a notch.




                      Final Thoughts: Shadows of Valentia does everything great except for gameplay. The characters, soundtrack, story and art are among some of the best this series has to offer. It’s a major step up from Awakening and Fates and it’s enough to convince me that the Fire Emblem series hasn’t gone to crap. It’s about time we got a high caliber game like this. I was starting to worry that all future installments would go down the route of Awakening and Fates. Now that there’s an Echoes series I have faith that Intelligent Systems won’t leave its veterans behind in the dust. I hope they remake the other older games as well (although I am nervous as crap about a potential Holy War and Thracia 776 remake). However, this game is living proof that Intelligent Systems can make great Fire Emblem games.  #TheyMadeFireEmblemGreatAgain

                          It’s too soon to tell for me where specifically this ranks in terms of overall enjoyment. Right now I’m thinking that Shadows of Valentia is somewhere between # 4 - 7 in terms of overall enjoyment for me. I don’t think it ranks as high as Path of Radiance or the Jugdral games, but outside of those three this game’s ranking is free game. There’s a really good chance this game will end up in my Top 5 Favorite Fire Emblem games.

                           It’s good to see that my initial skepticism of this game turned out to be mostly wrong. Shadows of Valentia is a great game and I highly recommend it to anyone who hasn’t played it yet. I’m glad it’s getting praise from the fanbase because it deserves every bit that it gets.       

15 comments:

  1. Welcome back.

    I ought to mention that while I haven't played Echoes, what I can gather from the Combat Arts is that as they stand, they're built to be player phase friendly. Reason being that they use commands and provide stat boosts. I will agree that Combat Arts needs fine-tuning (preventing doubling, why?), but the basic gameplay is definitely a good idea.

    BTW, I've been working on my FE1 0% Growths run:
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO2o0_k4kOryAneeDNZhERqjzPKTHYGu1
    You might especially like what I do on Chapter 9.

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  2. Oh, and I'm going to X-Post my comment about why magic ignores terrain boosts:

    "I will point out that magic ignoring terrain was from the original Gaiden as well as the very first FE. FE1's terrain boosts weren't even as ridiculous, being no higher than 30%. The Castle having that much still indirectly resulted in this from 4 consecutive misses on a 57%:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiJNQfiYVyI

    "Oh, and that jackhole Gomes effectively has only 1% Crit, not 2%.

    "The idea in FE1, where every map except the last one is Seize, is to promote space control. The Castles are especially notable because they tend to have thick defenses that will inevitably hit and therefore kill the mages until those defenses are broken down. With magic not being affected by terrain, this makes overrunning the Seize location with spellcasters an objective. Most of the time.

    "What I don't get is why terrain boosts don't focus on Physical DEF. I'm not asking for Thracia 776's extremes of making Seize points add 10 Physical DEF (yes, it's as ridiculous as it sounds), but Physical DEF boosts would favor higher Might weapons, the opposite of what Evade boosts do. This would let bosses be challenging for more legitimate reasons instead of forcing reliance on luck that forces accurate weapon usage against a target that is supposed to be hard to drive off a given location. God knows better handling of this would have let Manuu (FE1 Chapter 9 boss) better encourage weapons like the Dragon Killer over standard tomes.

    "Either way, how did Gaiden miss this key point? "

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  3. I'm curious as to how the game can get an F in gameplay yet still be in the top 5. I guess you found the other games in the series to be that bad?

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  4. I don't put anywhere near as much emphasis on gameplay as most FE fans do. A lot of FE fans care only about gameplay with everything else being ancillary. I don't agree with this mindset at all.

    Gameplay is on an equal footing with the other categories. Also, I distinctly mentioned that SoV does everything else great except for gameplay. If a game has a story, characters and OST then that more than balances out an F in gameplay.


    I can enjoy SoV despite many of its poor design choices bc of everything else.

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    1. Personally, I found the story and characters to be ok but quite flawed when combined with the terrible gameplay makes the bottom 5 for me. Sadly, I really wanted to like the game because of the presentation.

      I don't really need to talk about the gameplay as I generally agree with your views.

      Here are some of the other problems I have, not sure if they belong entirety to story or characters:

      Celica - agree with most of the things you said, but I really feel like she doesn't add anything to the story. If you removed her from the story not much changes, and probably is better as a result. It's a big problem because she's a main character. Her relationship with alm also feels forced. It's a shame because her redesign is awesome.

      Rudolf - his plan makes no sense to me and is very convoluted. He places his faith in alm because he has the brand and is the chosen one. Perhaps you can explain Rudolf to me?

      Mycen - he honestly seems really integral to the story, with Rudolf, Nomah, etc but we really don't learn much about him.

      Jedah - he feels like a very cartoony villian and reminds me a lot of Iago and definitely deserved better. Also the way he looks too.

      Fernand - he honestly was very one-dimensional to me with the noble vs peasant trope. I feel like the game didn't do much to expand on this. I also believe that the only reason he forgives the party is because he learns that Alm is actually royalty.

      Aside from these most of the other characters are fine sans Faye and their interactions are good. Unfortunately these are big characters in the story and it's hard to overlook for me.

      I have some other issues with the plot but I figure this post is already pretty long.

      Curiously though why is thracia one of your favorites if it's not for the gameplay , it's hard to judge the story and characters with the poor translation unless you understand Japanese.

      Again sorry for the long post.

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    2. Rudolf saw that Mila and Duma's intervention in Valentia was going to screw over mankind. He waged war on Zofia to get people to rely on their own strength. He sent Alm away bc if Alm stayed in Rigel the Duma Faithful would have most likely assassinated him. As far as placing faith in Alm for being a chosen one that's par for the course in a fantasy type story so that doesn't bother me.

      I agree that Jedah's cartoony but he at least has actual motivations and beliefs that are explained in the story. I'd consider him to be a better written character than Iago.

      Fernand's family was killed due to a drought happening in Zofia. This is the given explanation why he doesn't like commoners. To me that's sufficient although once again more details would have been nice. I think he forgives the party once he realizes what Berkut was willing to do in search of power.

      I'll be the first to admit that my love of Thracia mostly comes from the excellent gameplay. I also really really like FE 12 for its gameplay too. However, they tend to be exceptions rather than the rule.

      Holy War, Path of Radiance, Shadows of Valentia, Radiant Dawn to a lesser extent, and Blazing Sword are all favorites (or are at least liked a lot) generally speaking bc of their stories / the characters (although I'm reevaluating my belief on Radiant Dawn).

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    3. Personally, I think that Thracia's story, while smaller scale and simpler is still a good story/plot overall, we just can't necessarily judge the writing quality based off an incomplete translation. I think it has the best gameplay of any of them I've played so far and a solid story, making it one of my favorites in the series.

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  5. Oh yeah, thanks for the sub to my channel. I also do preview streams for my 0% Growths playthrough here if you're interested:
    https://gaming.youtube.com/user/MasterKnightDH/live

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    1. You're welcome. It's the least I could do after all the wonderful comments you've made on my blog. :)

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  6. I'm totally agree with your "Atrocious RNG" part. Good luck or bad luck, I don't know, but sometimes it was truly frustrating.
    Compensate for the wonderful soundtrack and the enlargement of history and interaction between characters.
    Nice review of the game ^^

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  7. Knowing that the game has poor gameplay (but excels on everything else). What's your opinion on the replayability of the game?

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    1. You know I recently just beat Shadows of Valentia again and I have to say that it's replayablity caught me off guard.

      The different promotion options for villagers help with this and there were characters that I didn't use during my first playthrough that made a difference here.

      In comparison to other games like Fates, Awakening or even Blazing Sword the replayability doesn't hold up as well. It doesn't seem like there's as much to do in SoV.

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  8. This game shows us that IntSys is capable of writing decent stories with great characters, I especially loved Berkut and how the story's events took his worldview and self worth and just trampled it.
    Although his romance with Rinea would have been more believable had we seen more of her. I was a BIT let down with the games story because I let my expectations get to high when they said they were expanding the story.

    Overall though again, this shows that IntSys can make a better story than the other 2 3DS FE games if they really try.

    Here's hoping FE Switch does good in this department and doesn't bring bac the god awful My Unit trend.

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  9. Witches that can teleport to any part of the map ->> Actually there's a pattern with Witches' Teleportation. They will only attack units located alone OR at the verges of the group. I've been using that pattern to slay them and grind my high res units.

    Enemies being able to start skirmishes. -> For me I truly love this mechanics. Simple reason: it reflects the reality of a real war where skirmishes happen anytime and can be triggered by anyone. :)

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